Ghost Adventures or GA for short started on October 17, 2008 on the Travel Channel in the States as a TV show, the same channel that at the time aired Most Haunted. So it is safe to say this show will be of the same style.
Ghost Adventures actually started out in 2004 as a "documentary type film".
GA has already had around 140 episodes, compared to 188 of Most Haunted. But GA is widely regarded to be a much bigger show, and has had more viewers worldwide, even the recent reboot of Most Haunted struggled in the ratings against GA on UK TV channel REALLY.
Much like MH, GA has had its fair share of controversies, one of the most widely reported is the Cowboy Bob incident, basically during a Live special Robert Bess the inventor of the "Parabot Containment Chamber" claimed that an EMF Meter was knocked violently out of his hand by ghosties! But because this was a LIVE show, everyone saw what really happened, and the hosts were forced to "debunk" it.
Much like MH, most of the times a show gets exposed as faked is during Live shows when obviously there is no time to edit and cover things up. GA got caught out, but at least they addressed it in a respectable manner.
Here is a video of their response to this incident.
Although I give them credit for addressing this, they really didn't have much choice, and i thought their fancy analysis and slow motion was a bit over the top.
Anyway there is a bit of history about the show to catch people up on what the show is about, and one of the main incidents.
I have never watched GA before, I do not know the characters, their motivations or beliefs, so as far as I am concerned I will give them a totally fresh slate and judge them as such.
Ghost Adventures Series 10 Episode 10
Official Synopsis:
The Ghost Adventures Crew, along with Darkness Radio host Dave Schrader and Bill Chappell, travels to a quiet suburb just outside of Seattle to investigate the residence of a local Bothell man who claims that a demonic entity is wreaking havoc in his home by burning bibles, throwing furniture, and burning demonic symbols in his walls.
The first thing I notice while watching GA compared to MH is the much higher production values, this show is clearly quite slickly produced and directed.
They begin by talking to a man who claims his house is haunted and that Bibles have been set on fire, things thrown etc. Zak Bagans asks the man a really good question, why stay in the house? The man comes out with some bull, about being grounded at the house, having a job and so on. We get to see some home video footage, which looks blatantly faked to me. Its noted that he rents the house, so no problem to leave, yet he chooses to stay despite all of his claims. Hmmmm....
The first problem I see is that the GA crew are starting off from a position of belief, instead of skepticism. The home video footage is very very dodgy that the man has given. If any of what he had claimed was really true, there is no way you would stay in the house.
Within the first 10 minutes, I have decided that this looks like a scam by the man and woman who live in this house, attention seeking. This is just my opinion. The thing is, I know that ghosts do not exist, so that means someone in the house has to be behind it. They haven't shown any children yet, who are usually behind these kinds of things, so it has to be the adults.
They then trot out a "Paranormal Investigator" a strange looking woman called Jennifer Madsen, who instantly annoys me, a quick google of her and I cant find anything of interest on her.
She claims to do a lot of Native American Cleansing, so instantly you can understand she is a bit of a loony. Unless of course she means literally she likes to wash and clean Native Americans!
The man of the house seems to believe that it is an evil Native American spirit that is behind the haunting.
So the format of this show seems to be the first 15 minutes are history lessons, interviews with relevant parties and then the show moves on to the investigation.
One of the first things I have noticed is the lack of women on the crew at all. No screaming idiots, no sexy make up girl.
Anyway the investigators start off by reviewing Keith's (man of the house) videos, much like me they seem suspicious, so that is a good start. Although we are now nearly 20 minutes into the show, and nothing has really been done, or explained. Just a lot of talking and explaining.
Still my main issue with this show is the starting point of belief, it instantly means everything they say and do lacks all credibility, even if they are suspicious and bring up some good points. Another problem is the huge amount of people involved, so many camera guys, people watching monitors, the investigators and so on, it really adds nothing to the show, other than giving more people the chance to fake stuff.
They start off the investigation by getting Keith and his girlfriend to wonder about the house and see if they can encourage the ghosties to do something on camera. Keith seems suspiciously well rehearsed for what he is saying. As they walk about and talk to the ghosts, nothing happens, and they even act surprised that nothing is happening.
Also another thing to note is they are doing everything in the dark, yet Keiths own dodgy footage showed things happening in the day or with the lights on! Of course night vision makes everything look more spooky! You can blame the Blair Witch Project for that!
25 minutes in, and I have to say I am getting a tad bored. Although as I say that an Infra Red light belonging to the crew has gone out, as usual the claims of it being on a full battery are trotted out.
So far the only thing that has happened is that an IR light has gone out. Zak tries to claim that Tina the women who lives in the house is giving off negative energy, and that he feels nothing from the house.
Eventually Keith and Tina are told to leave and they go off to a hotel. Leaving Zak and the crew on their own in the house to see what they can find. They get to play with some fancy equipment, which in all honestly is completely useless, but they got to spend the budget on something I guess.
Thermo cams, SLS cameras, EMF meters and so on.
You could wave a banana around for all the good it would do when it comes to detecting ghosts.
What I would do right now for a Stuart Toreville to appear and suddenly throw some stones!
The GA investigators are talking out loud to the ghosts (which do not exist). Just think about this for a moment, I am sat here watching grown men, pretend to talk to ghosts while stood in the dark in some strangers house. Who is the crazier person here? Them or me? That is something I need to get my head around.
30 Minutes in and a camera has gone down! Yay! Come on you ghosties, you have to build up towards the end scenes, that's TV Paranormal Investigations 101!
The camera that has gone down is in Keith's office and the so called hub of all things that go bump in the night. After investigating it, its just a dead battery. Why don't these idiots ever plug these things directly into the mains!
The investigators are starting to get bored, and realise that nothing is happening, I think they have realised that the problem is Keith and his Girlfriend, and I am sure they are either gonna claim that the woman herself is haunted, or that Keith is faking things.
They now proudly state they are going to take this investigation to a "Maximum Scientific Level", with Electrical Engineer Bill Chappel conducts an experiment with a brand new device he invented which is basically a projector (that he did not invent) projecting some read outs onto the wall. Lots of crap like Humidity, Barometric pressure, temperature and so on.
It also has a built in EVP recording feature and a female computer voice that asks questions.
All seems like a huge waste of money to me, especially as we know that EVPs are evidentially worthless. But then again it makes idiotic believers go "wow" and "they are so professional and scientific".
Remember just cause you use fancy equipment, doesn't make you a scientist.
Either way they waste some time, and get nothing of interest happen from the machine.
Less than 5 minutes left and they have no evidence whatsoever of a haunting.
Zak desperate to try and save the show, decides to do one final walk around of the house on his own. Nothing happens, so he pulls out an digital recorder to try and get something.
Zak suddenly gets shocked, and its a bug on his face. Lol, That made me smile.
And there investigation is basically over, and nothing has happened.
Ok so what can I take from this episode, Zak comes across as a nice enough genuine man, I cant really say anything bad about him from watching this one episode. The show didn't fake anything.
I would've preferred them to take a more skeptical approach and call out Keith and his Girlfriend, since obviously they are behind the so called haunting.
Will I watch again? Not sure, probably not. You see when you have a show that doesn't fake things it is incredibly boring.
I can understand why some uneducated believers might like the show, afterall there is that old claim of "things don't always happen, so we have to show that too"
Its almost like the lack of proof is used to prove the ghosts. Its an excuse I don't buy personally.
Zak seems likeable and honest, the show has really good production values, but the rest of the crew have little to no personality, so to watch for them is pointless.
They have an over reliance on useless equipment that they really don't understand, and a starting point of belief which leaves them lacking credibility.
Watch it, don't watch it, I don't care, but can I personally as the UKs most knowledgeable and experienced skeptic, can I recommend it? NO.
Sorry guys.
60 comments:
Maybe you should watch an episode where something does happen like Bobby Mackey music world. They didn't have to air the episode you have written about (lack of evidence) but did.
Maybe you need to watch an episode where something does happened. The fact that they aired an episode where nothing happens, says a lot.
So your logic is that because they aired an episode where nothing happened, that the episodes where something did happen must all be real?
Firstly Most Haunted did this exact trick because they were getting a lot of criticism from people saying that sometimes on investigations nothing happens.
It is called reverse psychology, and you as the "mark" have fallen for it hook line and sinker.
The real reason that they aired this episode in the way they did is because it was plainly clear that the people of the house were faking things, and from the people I spoke to who were involved, the GA team actually suspected they were being set up, so they DELIBERATELY found nothing, and switched suspicions to the people living in the house.
Think of a dodgy plumber, who after being called to a house starts to think this is a sting operation by a TV Watchdog type show, of course he is not going to claim that more damage has been done, and it will cost more to fix it!
You need to use your head when watching these shows, and dont let yourself get so easily manipulated by what is an ENTERTAINMENT show driven by ratings.
Yes they did have to air it, as they have a contract with Travel Channel I believe in the States who commissioned so many episodes, that means the GA crew get PAID MONEY to make episodes, they used that money to make the episode. So whether they liked it or not they had to give the TV company an episode to air.
To try and use backwards logic as a way to prove they are real is ridiculous.
Psychics do this trick all the time, when they are struggling to cold read someone, they just come out and say "sorry, sometimes I just dont get anything, its just the way it is" then the dumb mark sees that as a proof that the psychic is legit!
THINK before you speak, or type in this instance, otherwise you make yourself look so incredibly gullible.
You state that due to the Ghost adventure crew starting the investigation with a belief in the supernatural, then they lose credibility: "it instantly means everything they say and do lacks all credibility, even if they are suspicious and bring up some good points." And yet, you then state your own presuppositional bias by stating that you "know that ghost don't exist."
Using your logic, this means that you lose credibility as well.
You make a fair point, so let me respond and explain.
On one side you have someone having a start point of belief, acceptance and bias.
On the other side (me) you have someone having a start point of disbelief, non-acceptance and bias against.
So what is the difference?
Well my opinion is an opinion based on facts, based on science, based on hundreds of years of growth and knowledge about how the human body works.
From the moment a human is conceived to the moment a the last cell of a dead body degrades, science knows every single moment, using biology, physics and chemistry, we can chart every moment of every single change as we go from that fertized egg to the last decomposed human cell.
No religious teacher found that out, no psychic ever discovered any of this, instead thousands of scientists over hundreds of years have.
So lets fast forward slightly to what happens when we die. And again due to science (and some pretty nasty stuff at that) we know what happens when someone dies, the organs tend to shut down first, blood stops flowing around the body and most importantly to the brain, a lack of blood and therefore oxygen starves the brain, and eventually the electrical impulses in the brain stop, when this happens, we are dead, no turning back.
No human has ever come back from being truly dead, although the definition of what constitutes being dead has changed as SCIENCE and medicine have improved, no one has ever come back from true brain death. (You can ignore the story of that Jesus bloke, it was made up).
So we know everything that happens when a human is conceived to the point of death.
Now the afterlife. Evolution has meant that the human race struggles with the thoughts of death, due to our self awareness. Throughout human history, it has been shown that we give things supernatural meaning when we do not understand them, whether it is how the sun appears in the sky with the moon, to Earth Quakes, Tsunamis, you name it before SCIENCE explained it, we gave it a supernatural meaning, every single time.
So for me to say that ghosts do not exist, is an opinion based on hundreds of years of proven scientific study, and not a single piece of evidence exists to say that ghost do exist.
So for me to have that position, is surely a fair one, to be skeptical of claims which break the laws of physics should be the starting point of EVERYONE who is investigating a situation where something "unexplained" has been reported.
Remember Unexplained is not the same as unexplainable.
If someone comes along and says that they are going to investigate a pond because someone has claimed that in this pond there exists an invisible creature that not only can travel through time, but cure illnesses while smoking a cigar and singing the theme to The A Team. In any place should you start off with a position of belief? Of course not because the claim is ridiculous. But what if a million people all claim the same thing? All with no evidence, no proof, no theory, just a baseless claim, should you then start off with a position of belief? Still of course not.
So when I say ghosts do not exist, this is not some throw away comment, this is a comment based on scientific understanding of the the universe.
So ask yourself now, if one person says they believe in ghosts and one person says that ghosts do not exist, who really has the most credibility?
Ugh. A blogger who knows everything about the universe. How refreshing. Thank you for your infinite wisdom about death and the proceedings after. I'm sure it makes you feel really good that you have it all figured out. Because, you know, you know "the tale" of Jesus was made up because you were obviously there, and you know nothing happens after you die because you have clearly done it. Tell me, do you know what all the ingredients are in your shampoo? Can you even pronounce all of them with ease? If you do, which I'm sure you'll claim- congratulations. If not, then like the majority of us, you have no right to truly credit what all could be out there in our universe. Is Ghost Adventures a hoax? Maybe. But it's fun entertainment regardless. Take it at face value. Criminy. Stop taking yourself so serious and enjoy the outdoors. I'll do the same. Rant donzo.
Ah you think I am just a blogger!
Oh no, I am so much more.
Do some research on me.
I am the UKs most experienced and knowledgeable skeptic.
I am no armchair skeptic.
There is literally no one in the UK who has done what i have done.
Thousands of investigations.
Hundreds of face to face readings with psychics.
The SNU have had meetings about me, and called me the biggest threat to spiritualism since Houdini!
So yeah when I say something or give an opinion, it is not the opinion of some neckbeard virgin blogger, its the opinion of someone who has seen it all and done more than anyone else! Seriously tell me the name of a skeptic in the UK who has done what I have done!
The tales of Jesus were made up! By a bunch of people DECADES after he supposedly died! Oh and was written in Koin Greek, a language I just happen to be able to read.
So I have read the Bible in its original language, and I guess you have only ever read a version which has been translated hundreds of times! So in reality you have never read the True Bible!
No idea the ingredients in my shampoo.
And if you were to read any of my reviews on Most Haunted you will know I do not take myself too seriously at all.
In fact I am famous for my unusual style of humour.
I think the fact you have sat down all angry and sarcastic and have replied to a post I have written shows that YOU are taking yourself way too seriously.
Now looking at you Heather you literally are a faceless blogger, you are everything you seemingly despise about me! Now that is Irony.
I take Ghost Adventures at Face Value, as a spoof paranormal investigations show, aired on an ENTERTAINMENT channel, a show that is edited heavility.
I NEVER EVER said it was a serious show or even that it was advertised as such.
Its a fake ghost hunting show, just like Most Haunted. And I watched it knowing that.
First, I know ghosts DO exist, as I've seen many of them, and the equipment is legit, as I've been on many ghost hunts. But I would like to thank you for giving me that woman's name who claimed to do Native American cleansing. I didn't get very far into this episode because I was too pissed off. First, if she's not Native, she has no business doing "Native Cleansing". I'd set her damn sage on fire, too! And this show has a serious propensity for villainizing Native Americans (such as Dragging Canoe, Cherokee). "Oh, you're angry?...." Uh, if someone stole your land, slaughtered your people, poisoned you, raped your women, etc, etc, wouldn't YOU be pissed? Then after they claim it's a bad Native spirit, they call someone from the DUWAMISH TRIBE? Really? Who tells them their people were not in that area. DUH! Did they just call the first tribe they could find listed in the area? Do they have any idea just how many tribes there are in Washington State? Just because the DUWAMISH weren't in that area, doesn't mean another tribe wasn't, such as Sammammish, Snoqualmie, Suquamish, Tulalip, etc, etc. Bothell is actually quite a ways from Seattle. And it's a city I avoid like the plague. It's like a small house someone decided to put an addition on, where none made sense. Then another, and another. And claiming the drawings were Native American? WHAT THE HOLY HELL! Anyone FAMILIAR with coastal Salish style artwork would know that is complete CRAP!
You do NOT "know" that ghosts exist, seeing something with your own eyes is not proof of anything since clearly the human eye is easily fooled, Here is a video proving my point
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIvD-_ITco8
As for the equipment, yes the equipment is real, but what it claims to do is bullshit pseudoscience, and should not be taken seriously.
I have no opinion on the rest of what you say, so will leave it for others to read.
Just remember to watch that video, you can not and should not trust your own eyes, and remember in a court of law eye witness testimony is teh WEAKEST form of evidence! Never forget that
I read the entire story, admittedly, as soon as you said that you "know" there are no such thing as ghosts, you lost all credibility. It's no different than saying you "know" there are ghosts but have no evidence. It's true that the eye can play tricks on us, and people are deceiving others all the time, but to say that you know for sure is silly. The same as when people say I "know" there isn't a God... Really? Did you check under the mattress? It's one thing to say "I don't believe" in ghosts, or "there's no credible evidence" to prove 100%, that is legit and truly skeptical. You're just as bad as the scammers, in my opinion, with that attitude. I enjoy skepticism and exposure of fake stories. But stubbornness and close mindedness is not the same as skepticism. But you have bills to pay too, so I understand the stance.
First of all the comment about having bills to pay I don't follow.
The website is free, has always been free, I've had one donation in the entire of 2015, and that was for £10 last week funnily enough.
So your comment there is a bit pathetic, having bills to pay has nothing to do with my opinion. In fact I would make a whole lot of money if i was a believer.
Next up, when I say that there are no things as ghosts, this is an opinion based on hundreds of years of scientific study, it is based on all of scientific knowledge, on physics, biology and chemistry.
For me to say I know there are no such things as ghosts, is as credible a thing to say as the following.
I know that an invisible Loch Ness Monster did NOT just fly past my window while smoking a cigar and humming the theme tune to the A Team.
I know that former Liverpool FC footballer John Barnes is not really an alien from the surface of The Sun, whose real name is Keith, and he can shoot balls of ice out of his arse.
Those two utterly ridiculous comments, have exactly the same amount of evidence as that of ghosts existing, and as much possibility too.
Therefore for me to say ghosts do not exist, does not mean I lose credibility.
The existence of ghosts is as statistically improbable as alien John Barnes and Invisible flying Loch Ness Monster, or God for that matter.
So lets for a moment think about who has more credibilty, me or you.
I know you are Christian, so you believe in Jesus Christ and the miracles.
So you believe as fact that God raped a 12 year old girl, impregnated her to give birth to himself, he then did sodall for 30 years, then performed feats that break the laws of physics, then died, and rose as a Zombie, then disappeared.
You believe that as a true story.
There is only one person here who lacks credibility, and that would be you.
For you believe in magic, fairytales, and bullshit.
And you dare to have a go at me cause I stated that ghosts do not exist.
People like you should not be allowed to procreate, for you make the human race more stupid
This is a ridiculous analysis-review of a 100% fake show. Geoff is gone after having some kind if dilettante meltdown, and Bagans as far as I can tell is still in legal trouble. The new shows consist of Bagans interviewing past guests, which is the only thing I could imagine to be worse than the show itself. It is on the Travel Channel, it's always a commercial to get tourists to go some place.
You are right, and I agree with you.
The problem is that people believe that this nonsense is real, so in that respect I decided to review the show as if it was real, clearly to anyone with a brain it is faked as you said, but to get the believers to understand that, you need to try to explain to people why it is faked. Thats the hard bit.
Have you noticed all this stuff goes on in America?????
You maybe right about ghost or you maybe not. To say God is a rapist I find disgusting and has for the crucifixion and the resurrection is fake I find disgusting and hurt full. But then again if science said the moon was made of cheese of that money grows on trees cos science said so it's right and everyone else is wrong. But then again if a sceptic was told a fire does not burn because science said so they would believe it. He claims Jesus is not real yet there is historical evidence from roman scholars who had no reason to believe in Jesus claimed Jesus was real. The real problem with sceptis is they always have to right to save face. If you don't believe them. Then they want to make you look the fool first before you make them to be the real fool here. You can have science and sceptics telling me this is how it is or that is . yet somehow you can never say why it is. So when you can answer me why it is in all things supernatural don't exist without saying science said so. I will call this person more delusional as a the one's the ones they call delusional.
Ok to answer your points
"To say God is a rapist I find disgusting"
But it is a fact as recorded in the Bible.
Unless you think the forced impregnation of a 12 year old CHILD is a good thing?
Would you let your 12 year old daughter agree to be impregnated?
"But then again if science said the moon was made of cheese of that money grows on trees cos science said so it's right and everyone else is wrong.
Well that wouldn't be science would it, because science doesn't work like that.
In science, someone comes up with a hypothesis, they then try to prove it, if they believe they have proven it, then it is replicated by other scientists around the world unconnected to the original. These tests are peer reviewed, and if everyone agrees, it becomes a part of the mainstream.
Do you know the only way to prove science wrong is with more science.
Science is always growing, evolving and gaining new knowledge, where as Religion was just written by a bunch of men, in a language YOU do not understand, and it hasn't changed in 2000 years. To me that is a problem.
"He claims Jesus is not real yet there is historical evidence from roman scholars who had no reason to believe in Jesus claimed Jesus was real. "
Please share with us this historical evidence?
For the record, I have no problem in accepting that a man named Jesus lived 2000 years ago, but he damn sure didn't perform real miracles. Hell there are magicians today that can perform much more impressive tricks than those recorded in the Bible.
Also did you know at the time of Jesus, there was at least another 20 so called Messiahs with the exact same story as Jesus! Yep it is true.
Jesus simply had the best PR otherwise when i swear I could be saying Apolonius H Christ! (Google it)
"The real problem with sceptis is they always have to right to save face."
Not at all, a true skeptics actually enjoys being wrong, for that means we are learning something new, growing our minds and knowledge.
I hate always being right and really do revel in it when I am proven wrong.
"So when you can answer me why it is in all things supernatural don't exist without saying science said so. I will call this person more delusional as a the one's the ones they call delusional."
This is an easy one, all things supernatural do not exist because there is no evidence of them existing. There is your why right there.
Also I am guessing from your writing you are either very young (12?) or English is your second language.
Also I find it funny that as a religious person you had to use youtube to answer the question of where Cain found his wife! Guessing a skeptic asked you a question YOU could not answer! lol.
Boy you sceptits are easy to wind up aren't you first of all where in the bible does it say Mary was twelve and I see you ask a cop out question by asking me would I let my 12 year old daughter do this. Today no but this was a different time and a different culture. I see you are trying to make me look small by pointing out my bad English is. Well I am sorry for being dutch. Do I offend you. Plus I did not need you tube to check out if Cain had a wife as a pastor I already knew the answer. It is curiosity of wanting to know what other people thought. As for evidence from outside the bible the one I can think of and spell in w English is a roman historian called Josephus he had no reason to lie. Plus Jesus was a popular name at the time. But there was only one Jesus that was crucified. Plus Mr all knowing sceptic if are glad to be proven wrong. Why must you go round belittling all those who disagree with you. Tell me this. Let us say are wrong and you die and you find there is God after death,how you going to explain your scepticism then. You would a lot to loose. Where as if I am wrong I will gladly accept my fate. Plus why as man do we have a knowledge of right and wrong yet no other animal does. Tell me where does the conscience come from. Why do we use oxygen to stay alive. Why not another gas like methane. Why is it oxygen. Why do we need sunlight to live and grow things why not the moon and darkness instead why is it a big bang that made the universe when just like you and me. We were not there and evidence only suggests and suggestions can be changed. Plus scientists say if there is life out there. Then why must it need water and oxegen to live just because we need air and water to live it does not mean a e.t not needs to live. You see you can tell me how but you can't tell me why so when you can tell ne why things work in a certain
way then maybe I will acept what science say anout life.
Hi, firstly not at all wound up, in fact I reply to ignorant comments like yours all the time, so I am well prepared for it and know what I am on about.
Regarding Mary being 12 when raped by the holy spirit, here is my source
Allison, Dale C., Matthew: A Shorter Commentary, p.12 Continuum International Publishing Group, 2004 ISBN 0-567-08249-0
Now you make a fair point, that was a different time and different culture, you are somewhat correct, But you cant excuse horrific things in the Bible if it is indeed the word of God. You cant pick and choose what suits you.
But you also seem a bit ignorant regarding age of "consent" at the Vatican City the age of Consent was 12 years old up until 2013! So just 3 years ago a grown man like yourself could legally have sex with a 12 year old child in Vatican City!
And today in Argentina the age of consent is just 13! So you say it was a different time and different culture back in the time of Mary, yet many CHRISTIAN countries around the world TODAY still allow sex with a child!
So your point although a fair one in part, makes no difference to the discussion.
Also I never tried to make you look small because of your bad English, I even assumed you were either a child or that English was your second language, where did I try to insult you or make you look small? You are so ready to take offence, I wonder why?
Regarding Josephus, quite happy you went there, did you know there is not a single Roman/Jewish record of a man called Jesus ever existing, all except one! Yes not a single mention of Jesus in the century after his death except one by Josephus. Dont you find that strange?
in John Meier's 1991 book, A Marginal Jew, the single paragraph that Josephus wrote is pulled apart, and it clearly does not match his other writings, in fact it was written like a Christian and not a Jew. And most likely was added by a Christian copyist in the 4th or 5th century. So expert scholars have debunked and rubbished the ONLY account of Jesus.
So sorry you are wrong.
You then ask me
"Let us say are wrong and you die and you find there is God after death,how you going to explain your scepticism then"
Firstly I would be insanely happy to still be alive, as an atheist when I die, I am dead, that is it, so any kind of existence after that would be glorious! As for how I will explain by skepticism, who too? I was baptised Cypriot Orthodox (The first country in history to have a Christian Leader, and the birthplace of the Christian Church), My skepticism is based on the observable Universe. I am sure God would be happy that I denied all false Gods, but even more UNLIKE YOU, I have actually read the Bible in its original language So either way I reckon I am good on that score.
Next you ask a good question.
"Plus why as man do we have a knowledge of right and wrong yet no other animal does"
Well right and wrong is a taught thing, we learn what society deems to be right and wrong from our parents, from school, from the laws of the land.
Pets learn right and wrong from their owners. A dog will fart and then leave the room guilty because it knows it will be shouted at. This is a learned response.
When human tribes untouched from the rest of humanity are found, their cultures often involve murder, cannibalism and so on as part of their nature. Native Americans would scalp their enemies, they would eat other humans and so on.
So your question has been answered. We do not have an automatic knowledge of right and wrong, it is clearly taught, and provably so.
"Tell me where does the conscience come from."
Electrical impulses in the brain. Many animals are self aware not just humans. Science has learned more about the brain in the last 50 years than religion did in its entire history.
"Why do we use oxygen to stay alive"
Oxygen is needed to burn the fuel, sugars and fatty acids in our cells to produce energy.
Here is a video that explains it better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM_CgtFORzw
All part of the evolution of life on this planet.
And there is a type of worm that lives on Methane Ice!
The rest of your questions are scientific, and if you use google you will find answers to all of them.
And science only says that life needs liquid water, oxygen etc because that is what started life on this planet, HOWEVER science knows of many life forms that do not need liquid water, or oxygen, such life exists on this very planet you know. We are carbon based life forms, but science has theorized about silicon based life forms in the universe, but until we find one we wont know for sure. But it is science that will find the answers not religion.
And this really is a thread about Ghost Adventures and not a religious or scientific thread.
If you would like to know more you can ask on my forum.
http://moh2005.proboards.com
I will happily answer all your questions there from this point forward.
Did a google on you, found nothing
Worlds biggest sceptic? More like worlds biggest bullshitter
I bet you wouldn't even have the balls to spend the night at Mackeys music store even though "ghosts aren't real"
Never claimed to be the worlds biggest skeptic, even the title is ridiculous.
I have stated correctly that I am the UK's single most experienced and knowledgeable skeptic when it comes to psychics and mediums.
As for Mackeys Music Store, happy to spend the night there. I have sat in the condemended cell as Bodmin Gaol, and nothing happened. I have been the only person on Spinalonga Island, and nothing happened!
The ghosts are clearly scared of me!
ALso I have no problem with anyone taking the piss or having a joke, and that site you linked too (i dont allow external links which is why I didn't approve the link) is a parody site, Here is a line from their about me page.
"The goal is to provide comprehensive, reference-style parody, to poke fun at everyone and everything on the internet, as well as an archive for online communities to document and reference deviant users."
I have no problem with that site, I just wish they would get their links right and send me some traffic.
Thank you for visiting my site, googling me, and replying multiple times to my articles! It is very much appreciated, Thanks for spreading the word!
Oh and there is no such things as ghosts! As for your use of the word "energy", I reckon Einstein would be face palming right now if he could read the level of idiocy coming out of your 13 year old mouth.
I have approved every single one of your posts, except one when you provided an external link as that is against site rules, I even accepted your post whereby you revealed your intellect when you called me a retard.
You are more than welcome to join my forum, and post as many "factual" posts, videos whatever you want, and none will be edited, I would love for you to really educate me and show me how wrong I am.
Ps. I was creating websites before you were born.
Wow!I can't... I. Just. Can't. Good luck buddy.
Haha! Why is everyone so surprised that a skeptic that doesn't believe in ghosts doesn't recommend a ghost investigation show?
Jon donnis have you ever heard of quantum mechanics, the one thing that truly exists in the universe is conciousness. can you please tell me how the brain gives rise to conciousness? No scientist on earth can say an answer to that. How can atoms of the brain with electric impulses give rise to conciousness the powerful features of conciousness. For example some people have had head injurys then once they recover they find they can speak a new language, have superhuman features like incredible memory, how does that work then mr scientist, energy can't be destroyed but changed, you boil a pan of water the water has changed from liquid to steam, but not destroyed but changed.you are still living in the times when they say the world is flat
Yes I have heard of Quantum mechanics, and I dont recall who said this, but the only people qualified to talk about Quantum mechanics, are Quantum Physicists, if which you are not, and neither am I, so any discussion by you, whereby you use Quantum mechanics as a way to give credence to some crackpot idea of yours, really is a waste of time, and would be laughed at by any sane person.
Regarding how the brain has given rise to consciousness, you are right it is a hard question to answer, however SCIENTISTS are actually trying to answer it, and a number of theories have been discussed, you can read more about this at
http://www.livescience.com/47096-theories-seek-to-explain-consciousness.html
And also if you google you will learn even more.
Point is it is real scientists that are making strides in this field, not self proclaimed psychics.
As for people having accidents and then speaking a foreign language, this is a bit of a myth and you are confusing that with the very real phenomena of Foreign Accent Syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_accent_syndrome
"there has been no verified case where a patient's foreign language skills have improved after a brain injury"
The incredible memory thing after an accident is known as Acquired Savant Syndrome, and you can read more here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome
Again these are all things that are known to science, here is a fascinating article that looks into the causes of how such a thing could happen and the causes behind it
https://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/professional/savant-syndrome/resources/articles/the-acquired-savant/
Also not sure about your point on energy, yes energy does change and cannot be destroyed, not sure how in any way that relates to ghosts or psychics, both of which do not exist as a real thing.
As for me living in time when "they" said the world was flat, you do realise that no forward thinking civilisation in history has ever thought that, and it is just a myth. Even the ancient Greeks KNEW the Earth was spherical.
You can educate yourself on this by reading here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth
It seems that I just took you to school, and made you look a bit of a fool.
I assume I will never hear from you again, but was nice to educate you and answer every one of your points with reference points, further reading. And all because of SCIENCE!
But please do try again to outwit me, outsmart me, anything, it just gives me more material to play with and you will only end up looking more foolish!
Have a nice day!
This was fascinating to read, I must say. I don't understand why people just can't accept that others have opinions of their own and that's okay! Believe in ghosts, cool! Don't believe in ghosts, cool! You certainly don't, so why is that such a big ***** deal to everyone else? Loved reading this, it was a great debate/argument, however you would like to call it. Cudos.
Unfortunately, you've just about summed up the entire series, as far as I've experienced it. My brother watches it after work, and I sit there on the sofa to smirk and snear at how ridiculous it is.
I wouldn't call myself a sceptic per se. I believe there are some things in the universe we can't quite explain yet, because we don't have the right technology to capture or measure it. But I am super sceptical of tv shows that claim to scientifically investigate the paranormal.
I agree with you and share your frustration with some of these ridiculous comments you get, but calling people idiots and stupid seems unnecessary. Ignorance is arguably its own punishment.
One of the crucial mistakes people make about the Paranormal, skeptics included is to think something must happen every time. Think about it. Why would an entity, a powerful, manipulative entity at that perform feats before a TV show, why would it expose itself to a room full of cameras and an audience in the millions. The role of a malovolent entity is to avoid detection. Its not going to do your job for you i.e make it easy for u determine it exists. It knows it exists and the best way to preserve its existence is to make the house occupants: Myself and Tina look like fools. Whats funny is the novice audience fell for it. http://q13fox.com/2016/10/31/paranormal-researchers-return-to-look-into-haunted-bothell-home-again/
actually we didnt fake anything.
No, skeptics do not make any such "crucial mistakes" that something needs to happen every time, we just ask that it happens under a controlled setting.
The problem YOU and people like you have, is that you start from a position of believing, you talk about these powerful, manipulative entities as if they are a real thing. There exists 0% proof of such things, that is 0% proof in hundreds of years of real scientific study.
And then when you and Tina end up looking like fools (you are by the way), you blame the "novice" viewers for falling for a ghost manipulating them!
That must be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life.
"Man and Woman exposed as idiots, blame ghost for setting them up"
As for novice viewers, I am the single most experienced and knowledgeable person in the UK when it comes to Psychics/Mediums and the Paranormal. Seriously, look me up, no one has done what I have done. No one even comes close.
So instead of trying to find ways to excuse your own delusions, and idiocy, why not try and LEARN something new, LISTEN to other peoples viewpoints, people smarter than you, and perhaps give up on something that clearly you are not good at.
You speak from a perched position of knowing very little about this case. Most skeptics do. Question is your goal to remain a skeptic? or is your goal to know the truth? GA covered and showed very little in the 45 mins they had to tell a story. A compelling story at that. They didnt mention the previous tenants testimony, people who lived in the house 5 years before. People who up until the time we discovered them were strangers. Science is not the judge and judge of what is real and what is not real. No evidence does not prove hoaxing. The absence of evidence does not prove hoaxing, nor does it prove fakery. If GA was worth their weight in gold they should have samples of the paint (666, and other wall markings in my room, analyzed) They being the Travel Channel have the bank role to run such test and learn the ingredients of the marks themselves. They didn't. But they could have and you know what I would've welcomed such an experiment, because I'm equally as curious. My girlfriend and I are not the only one's that saw objects fly in our home and by objects I mean heavy objects. I guess a room full of people from all walks of life are suffering from the same delusion as you call it? I knew 0 when these events began to happen in our home. But I've learned so much as a result. Poltergeists cases are difficult to investigate, esp if your only definition of evidence is capturing phenomena such a Bible burning or a 300+ pound Amour flying across the room. Such feats are commonly reserved for the house occupants and the house occupants alone. Truth be told the physical feats is not where the focus should be. Other teams came before and after GA and left with truck loads of evidence. some saw small objects move. Some saw objects teleport. Some heard the loud bangs. Some saw the apparition. Some heard the disembodied voices. And more. But make no mistake about it whether they got evidence or got no evidence our claims are real. I know of other cases where people have been asked to prop up their claims, exaggerate a little bit for attentions sake. None of what I said on that show or now is being exaggerated. Everything happened. One thing science did get right and by science I mean physics. Objects can go through walls. Objects can change their trajectory in mid-flight. Objects can disappear and re-appear instantly. All of that is true. I've seen it. We've seen it. I'm sorry u and a school bus of skeptics weren't there with us at the time these things happen. Life doesn't work that way. Maybe thats by design? Who knows. You want evidence, email me privately. I'll send u evidence.
How about this, join my forum at http://moh2005.proboards.com
Post your evidence on there, we do not edit, we do not delete.
So how about you prove your claims, or at least try so we can analyse.
It is too awkward to debate on here, so easier on the forum.
So as a skeptic I question your claims and await your tangible, examinable evidence.
If you do not reply, or do not post on the forum, I will class this as just a random troll on the internet making bogus claims.
However if you do what you say, and provide evidence, and that evidence is compelling, I will happily publish it on here, give you full credit, link to whatever site you have etc, and help the wider media accept what you say as being genuine.
I welcome healthy debate. I'll join the forum yes. I will share who compiles what and when, and how. See u all there.
Unbelievable. All I keep reading is look at me, I'm the UK's best known skeptic. Narcissistic much? Lmfao. And you do make a valid point in most of your discussions so far, you state the word "opinion", that's exactly what you have an "opinion". Science hasn't proved or disproved life after death. And as for knowing the afterlife exists? I my friend, know, without a doubt it exists. And no skeptic or know it all can convince me otherwise. I've experienced it first-hand. And once again you mention theories, when in all honesty, a theory is the same as an opinion. You lack evidence, the same as the believers. I bet you were the kid that wet his pants in his bedroom when the nightlight blew it's bulb.
You do understand that you just used like fifty million wiki links right? And all of your proof lies within what man has said, right? Do you honestly think we would believe a person that relies on wiki links and Google to believe in whether ghosts exist or not? Really? Lmfao!
Prove it
First you have a go at me, you then say that science has not disproven or proven an afterlife exists, you then say that you KNOW without a doubt!
The irony of your post is incredibly funny.
Also you confuse a scientific theory with the laymans definition of the word theory, two very different things, google it.
And your last little insult just about sums you up, and your level of debating skills
Trust me you don't want to debate me. It's not my job to convince the close minded of anything. People are more hardened to their own belief system, there own ideals and way of thinking even if that way of thinking contradicts with the truth. You humor me while being the poster child of what I just said. To the others here. What's more important to you? To be right or to learn?
Trust you? lol. I WANT to debate you, because you seem like an easy target.
I assume you hang on the believer forums, you get the odd skeptic appear and you run rings around them. Well i am no odd skeptic. I have dealt with knowitall believers like you for over a decade, and I eat you for breakfast.
I thought you were gonna join my forum and show off your evidence? That never happened did it? So I win again.
And for your final question, I WANT to be proven wrong, for when I am wrong I learn! But someone like you does not have the intellect or evidence to teach me anything, again I hope i am wrong.
See you on the forum, or not as I suspect you are terrified of meeting someone who can outwit you at every turn.
Now run along Keith, go play with your love and light brigade where you are king.
Two things Jon Don. I don't debate to try to win people over. For lack of a better word I "debate" or better provide my account, my girlfriends account, previous tenants account, and our friends account. Odds are you will be beholden to your position, i.e. title as as skeptic I'm pretty sure you have your reasons. My job is not to convince that ghosts, demons, and Poltergeists are real. My job is to tell a story, a true story, an ordeal my girlfriend and I experienced from 2012 to 2014. You can ask me questions, you ask to see some of the evidence. I will share ALL that I have. In the end you will walk away believing what you believe to be is true and I will walk away knowing what I believe is true, because I being at ground zero for 4 years lived, breathed it, and occasionally ducked from it. I'll be coming to your forum soon. But lets get one thing straight, from my end this is not a debate. Maybe for you. Definitely not for me. Unfortunately I'm able to stand by every claim I made, that we made based on one simple fact. We saw it with our own eyes. See you soon.
Keith L
Hi
Please post your evidence on the forum so it can be examined
http://moh2005.proboards.com/
As a skeptic by my very nature I change my mind when confronted by actual evidence.
Looking forward to reading and seeing your evidence.
Please not more posts on here, as it is a comment section for an article, and not a good place to debate. That is what the forum is for.
I watch GA AND MH because I like to be entertained. Period. So what if they run around with a bunch of high tech gadgets that may or may not show anything-it's all part of the Show.
Here's the thing: I believe that there is/are things that will remained unexplained. Do I believe that ghosts/spectres/entities exist? Absolutely. But, it DOESN'T mean I believe in even a small percentage of the things that are supposedly "caught" on film during these Shows. Again, I just like to be entertained.
Personally, one of the biggest reasons I watch the shows is because they are able to go and visit historical sites that I will never see myself. And, I frankly enjoy having the token screaming hotties on MH, as much as I enjoy Aaron on GAs being VERY close,character-wise, to the cartoon character Shaggy from Scooby-Doo. Again, it's alllllll about the Show!! And, as Maximus Decimus Meridius used to shout, "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??" Completely!
But, based on your previous responses, I suppose you will tell me I'm a person of poor moral character because I'm a Believer. That's cool brother- opinions vary. I'm personally not going to lose any sleep over other's opinions of me.
Oh, and what brought me here? That Seattle "haunting". (Notice I put that in quotes) Since Keith is fond of posting lengthy diatribes on here, let me just say that, you believe what you want to believe. Lack of evidence on ONE show,in and of itself, doesn't necessarily mean that you are promulgating a hoax, but, boy your situation (even YOU have to admit) does seem a bit....odd, shall we say? Frankly, unless I'm THERE and see these activities for myself, I'll remain as skeptical of your situation as the gentleman who's hosting this Blog. And yes, I know there were paranormal specialists who flew in from England, but again, I wasnt there. Until I see, feel and experience these acts for myself, color me unimpressed.
You say you absolutely believe in ghosts etc, but you have never seen any credible evidence. So where does this massive leap in faith come from?
I also have no problem with your watching and enjoying such programs, they are entertainment, and as OFCOM clearly labelled Most Haunted, it is a spoof show, an entertainment show. A show with pre-planned scenes and gimmicks. That is all accepted now as fact.
I watch WWE Wrestling, that has many similarities with this genre.
I also have no problem with you being a believer, I am friends with people who believe in all sorts. I am more interested in the psychology behind the belief.
The psychology behind the belief is very simple, as it pertains to me and my girlfriend. Its relatively simple. "Seeing is believing." Once you see with your own eyes large objects moving on their own, fires starting at will, and stuff going through walls, belief is all you have left. Belief and common sense become good bed fellows. I was neutral about Ghosts, Demons, Poltergeists, etc until May 1st 2012. That 50% went to 100% the day a plant levitated off the floor, spun around and fell to the ground. It was down hill from there. That about sums up the belief for me and Tina from a psychological point of view. That being said I'm well the dialogue, the back in forth communication be on this forum or elsewhere about everything that happened, including how Ghost Adventures botched their own investigation. If the dialogue can remain respectful, zero innuendo, zero name calling. Deal me in.
You say "Seeing is believing"
What if I told you, you were wrong, and that eye witness accounts are the WEAKEST form of evidence in a court of law?
We also live in an age of CCTV, smart phones and so on.
If any of the incidents you describe really happened, we would have undeniable footage.
But alas we dont, and you dont, which is a shame.
If you do have ANY evidence whatsoever, please post on the forum, and not on the comments section here, as it helps no one.
Sir if eye-witnessed testimony was the weakest form of testimony in a court of law, they'd be no such things as subpoenas. LOL Seriously did u just suggest that? Eye-witness testimony is not the only thing its important, there are other factors. But eye-testimony is way up there. Lets not forget multiple eye testimony of the same account. Sorry sir give it. You can't defeat common sense. The eye's know what it see's. Objects don't fly. Tables dont rise up off the ground and go hurling across the room. Thats my eye testimony. Thats my girlfriends testimony, and thats the testimony of friends who were at the house when certain events occured. Believe or dont believe I dont care. But dont convince,or dont insult my common sense intelligence. The fact that you rely or wish to rely so much on CCTV reveals how much you don't know about the phenomena known as Poltergeist. Suggested reading for you is "Can We Explain the Poltergeist" by A.R.G Owen. Read that book thoroughly before suggesting what you just suggested about the importance of CCTV'S.
Hi
Firstly didnt i tell you to post on the forum? I am guessing your eyes are letting you down again.
Next up eye witness testimony really is a very weak form of evidence, here is an article for you to read on this very subject.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/
Just 5 eye witnessed all being wrong, a man sent to prison for rape and murder, 9 years later DNA proved he was innocent.
So yes in scientific terms, Eye witness evidence really is very weak. So I did suggest that, based on historical fact, psychological studies and SCIENCE.
SO yes your common sense is WRONG. Even with multiple eye witnesses.
I can suggest a scenario too with 1 million people lined up side by side, all give the exact same eye witness account of something, and every single one of them being provably wrong! Would you like to know how? Or does your common sense say that is impossible!
Next up as I previously suggested, why not post your EVIDENCE on my forum and we can examine it, or do you not have any, and all you have is stories?
EVERYONE has a smart phone these days, are you saying that when you see something paranormal you never thought to film it? My common sense says that only a fool wouldn't.
Now please if you want to continue this conversation do it on the forum.
http://moh2005.proboards.com
It is easier to reply on there, you can provide videos, links and so on. And argue your case better.
Of course if you are scared that you will be ridiculed, or outwitted by a bunch of skeptics, then of course I understand, but you are hardly doing well on this comments section, so why not give it a try.
Hi Jon
There are numerous sites on the world wide web where this evidence has been made available. I think we can agree to disagree that the word evidence is a subjective, relative term. I find it ironic how some people want to lessen the value of independent witnesses, and yet they scream for video footage. Its sort of a contradiction to say you want video and yet refuse the believe the testimony of others who were there. The prism of being a skeptic seems too thick for some. If a plant levitates off the ground and is seen by 4+ people the fact becomes simple. Debate is pointless. The plant flew across the room. The plant traveled fast. The plant upon hitting a wall, across the room broke into many pieces. The plant (or whats left of it) comes falling to the ground. What's left to witness and ponder about is pottery, dirt debris, broken up foliage, dent and dirt residue on the wall. 4 or 5 people are watching the same thing. Standing over the same broken pottery. 4+ people are looking at the new hole in the wall. The new dirt stain and on the far side of the room is the empty table the plant once stood. I think Spock said it best when he said.
"If I let go of a hammer on a planet that has a positive gravity, I need not see it fall to know that it has in fact fallen." Spock Star Trek. Episode "Court Marshall" I recommend everybody watch that episode who think they know everything there is to know about truth and the unknown.
Enjoy
https://youtu.be/YnEjPKWdca0
https://youtu.be/j6fNRn92Svo
and
https://youtu.be/0O_1_vEomBk
Actually the word "evidence" is not subjective.
noun
1.
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
So you make a claim that 4 people saw a plant flying across the room.
You have NO EVIDENCE!
Do you understand? It is just your word, which is evidentially worthless! As I have pointed out numerous times to you in a court of law, eye witness testimony is one of the weakest forms of evidence.
100 eye witnesses all saying the same exact thing in a court of law, are worth less than one piece of DNA evidence that contradicts them!
Also it is not ironic to ask for video evidence if a claim breaks the laws of physics. I think you don't understand what the word ironic means! Bit like you dont understand the word "Evidence"
I am not saying your experiences are lies, or that they never happened. I have never ever said that. What I have said is that there does not exist any EVIDENCE to back up a single claim you make.
I have invited you to join my forum and post as much evidence as you like, yet strangely you keep only posting here, why? Why are you so scared?
As for quoting Spock I can also quote him, a man of LOGIC! Not fantasy.
Here are some that perfectly fit your position.
“Insufficient facts always invite danger.”
“In critical moments men sometimes see exactly what they wish to see.”
“I see no logic in wanting to worship a deity that demands you to live in a perpetual state of fear.”
“Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. Where the laws do not operate, there is no reality.”
Now thats the end of this discussion on here.
This is a comments section for an episode of Ghost Adventures.
You are WELCOME to join my forum and talk as much as you like
http://moh2005.proboards.com
But I will not approve any more off topic comments to this page.
You have refused to back up anything you say with EVIDENCE, you are just trolling now and trying to be clever, and failing miserably.
One think is clear with all these type of programmes is that the contact they have from spirits are all trapped here either killers or lost souls like children that when they pass over they do not go into the light because they don't know to. You never hear any happy souls because they have passed into the light to the next level.killers seemed to be trapped here without the option to pass into the light,stuck here for eternity
Where do you base your knowledge on?
What you see on a spoof TV show like Ghost Adventures or Most Haunted?
There are no such things as ghosts for a start
1) "it is SO dark in here I can't see my hand in front of my face..WAIT..did you see that shadow?"
2) Checking out a 200yr old decrepit insane asylum:
"if someone is in here can you make a noise"(piece of plaster falls off ) oh my gosh did you hear that?"
3) Investigating a haunted lighthouse at the beach mid winter:
"I'm getting goosebumps all over, is someone here with us?"
Conclusion..wow you property is totally haunted. But don't worry they won't hurt you.
Above is the typical haunting show.
Zach Bagans goes beyond this with his version of a creepy mysterious voice, which is basically his normal voice at 45 percent slower speed, interspersed with staged monsters, fellow psychotic, I mean actors, I mean 'eyewitnesses'. personal experiences.
Jackasses, there are no such thing as ghosts. Once dead, dead. What you freaks need to worry about ..demons.
One thing I'm curious about. We have equipment that can tune from DC well into the gigahertz range. So, if all this electronic felgercarb can "detect" ghosts/spirits/whatever, how come now one has asked these "spirits" When is your birthday? When did you die? What did you die of? I've seen several Youtube videos of spirit boxes and I've seen youtube videos of supposed "hauntings".
Do ghosts etc. exist? I don't know. Has anyone ever been filmed in visible light, infrared, ultraviolet etc. at the moment of death as we understand it? (no brain activity) If our radios can tune from DC to daylight, and our microscopes can see the atom, then why do not not have solid scientific proof of an afterlife?
Did the gentleman claiming to be Keith ever post evidence for review on the forum? If so, can you link it here?
Thank you
Of course he didnt, they never do
I thought as much. All I found were multiple instances of him, or the real Keith that is, repeating what he observed and others saying they believe him when he describes what he observed. I suppose this is what he refers to as evidence.
the evidence (you seek) has been posted online going four years. (4)Books, (3)reports, (4)mini documentaries and (3) documentaries alike. As promised.
Post a Comment